Posts by Faithful Witness

21

Does Death Exist? New theory says "No"

by jam in

maybe someone can post "www.robertlanza.co.

i hope mr lanza is right in his theory because it is scary not knowing.

where in the hell i will end up after i die..lol.

Faithful Witness

I still suspect that my entire life has just been one very long, elaborate dream...

59

STARTING OVER with my Elderette - What Does the Bible REALLY Teach?

by Faithful Witness in

she said, "so, what made you decide to study this book?

at this point, she opened with a prayer.

"...and some decide that such questions are best left to religious leaders and teachers.

Faithful Witness

The International Convention in Detroit is in 2 weeks, the weekend of June 6. I'm a little disappointed we didn't get an invitation yet.

59

STARTING OVER with my Elderette - What Does the Bible REALLY Teach?

by Faithful Witness in

she said, "so, what made you decide to study this book?

at this point, she opened with a prayer.

"...and some decide that such questions are best left to religious leaders and teachers.

We were told that we actually live in the territory of one KH, even though we attended another. When we moved, we naturally thought we were supposed to go to the one that shared our zip code. Apparently, we are near the border of the territory. We regularly get called on by the local KH (that we never attended).

I told this to Miss K, and she seemed genuinely surprised. She really thought I was in the territory of her KH. I don't know if she was worried for the reason that she expressed, "We don't want to be doing double visits to people and bothering them!" (referring to my neighbors). I know that there used to be a lady who lived out the last years of her life at an old age home across the street from us. We never met her, but occasionally JW's from our old KH would come and visit us, when they were "calling on" her also.

cha-ching -- If we are home, I am always good for a little conversation! Come by anytime and visit lonely old me! (I love my fishing spot.)

I'm just curious if this really has an impact. I'm assuming she will continue the study.

Also, WHY have we not received an invitation to the International Convention?? I didn't get one from Miss K, and there was never one left in my doorjam either. Maybe it is still coming...??

59

STARTING OVER with my Elderette - What Does the Bible REALLY Teach?

by Faithful Witness in

she said, "so, what made you decide to study this book?

at this point, she opened with a prayer.

"...and some decide that such questions are best left to religious leaders and teachers.

Faithful Witness

mgmelkat: I have read Keith's blog also! It is so enlightening. I love his approach. He just started a new book study with a different pioneer (elder), as the first one finally ditched him. Anyone who is not familiar with his ministry, and who has compassion for people trapped in cults, should check it out! Thanks!

Phaedra: That is sort of what happened our first time around with the JW's. We studied, and it came to the point where I was trying to convince myself. It would have been wonderful to find out that the Watchtower really DID have the truth, and that they were following the teachings of Jesus and that their works and preaching WERE pleasing to God. I could never become convinced, especially after seeing the evidence that we saw (it was the tip of the iceberg). After that, we had to stop going to meetings. We were just going for the fellowship at that point, and I'm not someone who is able to keep my true feelings a secret for long. Why lie to people, just so they will be your friends? We realized we were being deceptive, by going to meetings every week, just so we could enjoy the company of a couple of families that my husband and I really did love. Of course, after we stopped going to meetings, the friendships all ended.

The people from that KH will still greet us in public, except for a few, who seem to have a strange fear and almost hatred toward me.

sarahsmile: What is the "Make Sure?" I have never heard of that.

Oubliette said: Sign of a Cult: "Never talk to former members. They lie." -- EXACTLY!! This is what I realized, when my sister (out of naivety and I think she thought she was actually going to help me somehow), sent me an emailed scan of an article they studied about 6 months after we stopped going to meetings. She said, "I'm not saying that you are a bad person, or anything..." The article was about avoiding anyone who had left the organization. "Mentally diseased... Ravenous wolves... They want to draw you away from the organization that they once loved!"

It was SHOCKING to me to read that article. When she sent it, it was about 2 weeks after her husband had cornered me (ALONE) and accused me of "turning my back on Jehovah." I cried, and told him what had happened, and how our teacher would not answer our questions. I was sobbing and telling him the story. They were so new (but already baptized), and this was the first time they even heard that there was any evidence against the JW's. His reaction was to tell me "You should go to your dad. He'd love to answer your questions..." That's not the kind of relationship I have with my dad, so I ended up retreating. I had already been programmed far enough, that I did not want to "stumble" anyone else in their faith.

OH! What a terrible mistake I made, in not sharing the evidence we had found. We were so stunned by the stories we heard, and then by the reaction of our teacher, we ended up dropping the whole issue and trying to forget about it. Then I had surgery, and my mom came for a visit (she was not yet baptized). I was on some heavy narcotic pain meds, and proceeded to tell her about my sister sending me that article. I remember I was crying and saying how things look so much clearer, after you stop going to the meetings. I said, "Only a CULT will tell you not to listen to outside information! Why do they need to control what you read, and why are you not even allowed to CONSIDER any other information?" I think I scared her, but she didn't say anything. I know my mouth was on autopilot, because of the Percocet. The physical pain I was feeling was overwhelming, and I was very emotional. It was very cathartic to finally spill my guts... hahaha. Too little, too late, I'm afraid! :'( I wonder if my mom thought that Satan himself had come upon me that evening. LOL!

leaving_quietly: Thank you for that reference! My other Christian friend found this interesting also. She said, "The Trinity is not mentioned in the Bible either, but it is clearly a Bible principle that is being taught." Not to start a debate about that hot topic, but I thought that was a good point also.

Bob: Great reference in Acts! Thanks!

About your previous comment, with me on stage at a convention: I have already given speeches about the JW's and the way they "almost" got me. I had a ladies' bible fellowship group ask me to come and share my story once, and it was interesting to see the reactions that I got from these so-called "mature" Christian women. When I share my story with Christians, I usually try to put it in a nut shell. "I almost became a Jehovah's Witness." Of course, this is really not true. I never even got to the point where I knew what was required to become a member. Since most people in America have had a JW at their door at some point in their lives, many find my experiences and inside information interesting. I am still working on a more concise way to spread the message (and warning) to people who are willing to listen.

JW's are not just a harmless little sect. Those nice people that come to your door are under dangerous mind control, and they are spreading false teachings. It took me a long time to realize that this false religion makes a BUSINESS out of denying Christ. They do it every day, and they make a big show of it once a year, when they MOCK the ceremony of the Last Supper. They lure in people who are lonely, and promise you happiness and security. After they convince you that the world is a terrible place, and that every religion (except theirs) is false, you start to believe there really is "nowhere else to go." They keep you so busy with meetings and fruitless work in the fields, that you don't have time to realize what is happening to you. One day, you wake up and wonder, "How did this happen? How did we get HERE?" Whenever I meet a JW, I really feel compassion for that person. I have been hurt by the way the religion has torn my sister from me, and has caused this big rift in our family. "Jehovah's Witnesses divide families," was a statement my mother made, when she first learned that we were studying with them. She even approached my evangelical cousin, and asked her to pray for me to stop talking to the JW's. Look how the tables have turned! Now I am the outcast in my family, because I did not follow the organization. If more people would respond with kindness and compasion for the JW's who come knocking, if more people were willing to give these innocent souls the message of hope and freedom, their field service work could actually be their salvation. If more householders were informed and cared enough to react, there might be a chance of rescuing some people. I think too many of them really think there is "nowhere else to go."

59

STARTING OVER with my Elderette - What Does the Bible REALLY Teach?

by Faithful Witness in

she said, "so, what made you decide to study this book?

at this point, she opened with a prayer.

"...and some decide that such questions are best left to religious leaders and teachers.

Faithful Witness

Oubliette: Good question! I will bring that one up next time.

Bob_NC: Haha. Probably... she is also looking forward to ALL those easy hours, and cinnamon tea

Now that I am an official Book Study, will she continue to bring along a partner? Miss W did cramp her style a little bit...

59

STARTING OVER with my Elderette - What Does the Bible REALLY Teach?

by Faithful Witness in

she said, "so, what made you decide to study this book?

at this point, she opened with a prayer.

"...and some decide that such questions are best left to religious leaders and teachers.

Faithful Witness

She did also talk about the people who disagree with the organization, and don't want to follow it, "They use the term 'apostates.' "

"Most of the people who are spreading information, or saying, 'I used to be a JW, and I can tell you how it REALLY is...' have a lot of hurt feelings, and they will try to cause you to doubt every little thing you hear from the JW's. They will constantly be trying to get you on 'their side,' and will even tell you things that aren't necessarily true, or are exaggerations. They will try to plant doubts in your mind, so that you will not believe ANYTHING that the JW's say."

Her speech was much longer, but that was the jist of it. I have to agree with her on that one.

"You will listen to them, and little FLAGS will go up in your mind, so every time you hear something that is different about the JW's, that FLAG will go up, and make you question it. The key is to examine the scriptures and see what the Bible ACTUALLY says."

I told her, "I am a very fair-minded person, and I carefully listen to BOTH sides of the story..." then added, "... and THAT is what got us in TROUBLE!! JW's don't want you to hear the other side of the story..."

She said, "I believe you were treated unfairly, and that you should be allowed to ask questions."

I guess we will see... We didn't accomplish much, but the stage has been set... I have 3 weeks to get my questions ready. We will be skimming over the next 2 pages or so, and really diving into the part about the name of God. She said, "I have some things I want to show you about the name. God DID have a name."

(DID??? no longer? hmmmm)

59

STARTING OVER with my Elderette - What Does the Bible REALLY Teach?

by Faithful Witness in

she said, "so, what made you decide to study this book?

at this point, she opened with a prayer.

"...and some decide that such questions are best left to religious leaders and teachers.

Faithful Witness

Miss K arrived alone yesterday afternoon. It wasn't clear if Miss W would be coming with her for future visits or not. (apparently she had company, and could not make it). We had scheduled our first official session of our book study together. I think this whole meeting, was just "setting the stage." She is establishing her knowledge and trying to build some trust with me. I am also establishing trust with her. I did not act like an opposer, but as someone who has sincere questions. (I have no illusions that she will ever leave the organization she loves... but hope to find ways to reach my parents, whose faith is not cemented yet.)

We shared some small talk and she gave a long introductory speech, about how true and accurate the Watchtower publications are. She has had experiences with several people over the years... people who she believes are now giving her some credibility.

She told the story of one lady that she "studies" with, who attends an Episcopal church. This woman runs a Bible Study group in her home, but for some reason she asks Miss K, whenever the group has questions about historical events. This same woman had done a study on the fall of Jerusalem, and Miss K was talking about checking dates, and how surprised and pleased she was, to find out that the Watchtower had been so close in their estimated times of events. She also told me that this woman had "purchased" (through voluntary donation, in the form of a check from the Episcopal church) 8 copies of a JW book called "The Good Land." (?? I have never heard of it) The books were for the church library. I found that whole story bizarre.

Miss K had some other examples, and she seems to like using these anonymous references, to show that she is a trusted source. She told of a woman she is studying the "Draw Closer to Jehovah" book with, in order to help her regain her footing as an active JW. She is not disfellowshipped, but has been inactive for over 12 years. Miss K considers herself to be a bit of an advisor, and it sounds like she does have some followers.

Then she told me the story of a woman who has now died. She died of Leukemia, but she didn't specifically state if it was from blood refusal. The woman had really wanted to make the right decision, regarding blood fractions. Miss K said she kept trying to get her to give her advice, but that Miss K would only tell her the facts (along with some subconscious suggestions, I'm sure). Miss K made the memorable statement, in a very humble voice (not being a smart aleck at all), "If I had told this woman to eat dog poop, she would have done it..."

So, that was most of her introduction of herself and the value that she has imparted to others through their studies with her. cha-ching

Let's begin...

I had prepared myself, by reading Wilbur Lingle's commentary and suggestions for questions to use with the Bible Teach book. Having *almost* fallen for this once already, and now coming back to read this book again years later, it is a pretty fascinating read. The manipulative way the book presents itself, while telling you that the answers are "in the Bible," is brilliant. I have serious doubts about the accuracy of this publication. She knows it, as I have told her so.

In our previous conversation, she asked me if I'd ever seen that book. I told her I'd studied the whole thing already. She said, "It's called, 'What does the Bible REALLY teach?' What do you think you will learn from this book?"

I replied, "This book tells you what Jehovah's Witnesses believe the Bible teaches." She prodded me a few times, until I asked her if the book was "inspired," and then dropped it, only to reintroduce the idea at our next meeting together. After doing a little more research, I decided to let her try to show me that book again, and that I would use the opportunity to ask the questions that are being avoided in the text of that book. I was feeling ready to actually question the validity of that book, before we even started reading it, but she pulled another fast one on me...

She said, "So, what made you decide to study this book?" I don't know why, I hadn't expected that question. I paused and said, "Well, you have presented the idea a few times. After I got the book out again and looked at it, I thought it would be better than jumping all over the place in our topics of discussion. This way, I can know what you are going to say next, and be more prepared with my quetions."

THEN, she almost seemed like she *didn't* want to use that book! She made a subtle disclaimer about it (as she mixes in these little admissions regularly, that she knows people have pointed out flaws and inconsistencies in the Watchtower literature), and said, "We do want to study what the BIBLE actually teaches... I'm not saying that this book ISN'T TRUE..." (trailing off a little). I said, "I agree with that!" with a slight chuckle.

I will present my questions about this book, when we start getting into some of the claims they make. I have a small stack of books that other Christian people have given me, unsolicited, in an attempt to help me understand the Bible. Each of those books has the author's name and credentials clearly displayed. Who wrote the Bible Teach book, and how do we know it is a factual publication? Why not give the credentials of the author?

At this point, she opened with a prayer. This was the first time she has prayed with me... a typical JW prayer... vague, long-winded and following a formula. (interesting note here... during both her opening and closing prayer, my German Shepherd started barking loudly from the other room, but she kept praying. The dog was quiet most of the time, but would occasionally decide to bark at the sound of her never-ending voice. I thought it was interesting that she barked for the prayers. Our dog barks, and Miss K is scared of her. I wonder what went through her mind when the dog was barking during her prayer).

Finally, we actually opened the book. We skimmed past the subliminal images and the mini-prophecies on the introductory page, and she went right to Chapter 1, "What Is the Truth About God?" She read the title and had me read the first 2 paragraphs. We didn't follow the questions that are presented in the footnotes, but she had some of her own questions, and so did I.

She asked me, "Why do people stop asking questions?" I replied that they probably have various reasons, but that some people think it is just easier to give in and give up questioning. They find comfort in letting someone else find the answers for them. She looked at me blankly for a split second.

Then I said, "I find this introduction to the book quite ironic, actually." She looked puzzled. "Why don't Jehovah's Witnesses ask more questions?" She stammered for a second, but then claimed that they DO ask questions! "Oh, we sure do!"

She went on and read the next 3 paragraphs. Instead of asking me the assigned question, " What are some of the most important questions we can ask in life, and why should we seek the answers?" (what a pompous question... Tell ME what questions I should ask... Haha, yeah ok) She started answering it herself, using the example that some people think it is impossible to have a close relationship with God. "That God is just some big computer in the sky, sending down orders and judgment, punishing people. They don't believe that you can HAVE a close relationship with God."

At this point, I went back to paragraph 3. "... And some decide that such questions are best left to religious leaders and teachers. What about you?" And she startled a little, like she was realizing she was supposed to be asking me, not answering for me. I read the sentence out loud, slowly, and looked at her. She said, "Oh yeah, what about you?" I said, "What about you? Do you believe that we should get our answers from religious leaders?" She said no, and bounced it back to me. I said, "No, I think you know I don't... but from an outside perspective, it often appears that JW's follow their leaders, over what they Bible says."

From here, she went into a little diatribe about "Bible principles." She asked me, "How does God feel about abortion?" I said he hates it. It is murder. She said, "You won't find that in the Bible! Abortion is not mentioned in the Bible." I said, "Thou shalt not kill. Killing unborn babies is murder." She said, "but scientists claim that is not killing, that it is not a person." I disagreed with that statement, but was not going to go into a debate about abortion.

Then she went on to say something about the feeding of the Greek speaking widows, and how they were not getting their food. "Do you think it mattered, if they delivered the food to them, or if they made them come and get the food? It was clear that they were instructed to feed them, but did it matter the WAY in which they got their food?" I was thrown by this strange reasoning.

I said, "But when your religious leaders go beyond what Jesus taught, or what it says in the Bible, who do you listen to? The Governing Body, or the actual instructions of Jesus Christ?"

She took me to Acts 17:11 " Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thes·sa·lo·ni′ca, for they accepted the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so." ... "What does that verse say?"

I said that the people examined the scriptures, to see if what they were hearing was true.

Miss K, "Right, AND what does it say, about how they received the word?" My Bible said, "with readiness of mind," and she added, "or here it says with 'the greatest eagerness.' So, the people were EAGER to hear the word, or the TRUTH, and then to prove it was true, by examining the scriptures."

I said something like, "Yes, and I have a difficult time understanding why JW's are so eager to change their beliefs and adjust their understanding, when God does not change, and Jesus is the Truth. The truth does not change."

And, here it is... "But the Bible DOES say that the light will get brighter in the time of the end! Jesus told his disciples that even though they didn't understand everything now, they would understand it later." I just furrowed my eyebrows at that. (Another one of those, "I should have said..." moments)

She then brought up an interesting question to me, in regards to another Christian friend I have. She asked me, "Your friend, who studies the Bible with her husband... the one you told me about, who does not celebrate holidays. Why don't they celebrate holidays?"

I told her it was because of things they discovered when they were examining the scriptures for themselves. She said, "Ok, so they found something in the Bible that disagreed with what they were doing, and they made changes? What is the difference between their doing that, and the JW's adjusting their understanding, when they make discoveries in the Bible?" I thought that was actually a good point, and I told her I hadn't thought of it that way before.

Of course, the obvious difference here, is that my friend and her husband made these decisions on their own, after reading the scriptures. They were not instructed to make these changes, by some American religioius leaders in New York. The instructions and interpretations that are sent down from the Tower to the MILLIONS of people, are accepted, without question, even when it could mean death.

I asked her what happens when you disagree with a new interpretation or an adjustment? Do you follow the religious leaders, or do you follow the Bible? She is unable to make the connection in her brain. She just knows that they are right. She said, "When they make adjustments, or we are given a new or clearer understanding, I usually just think... 'Why didn't we believe that all along?' I hear it, I check the scriptures, and realize they are right. For me, and I can only speak for myself of course, I am glad that we keep adjusting our path, so we can follow what the Bible really says."

I said, "What if you DID have questions, or didn't agree, after checking the new teaching in the Bible? Are you allowed to ask questions?" She said that questions are encouraged. "Even if they are doubts about what the society is saying?" She said, "of course. We are supposed to ask questions." I was not convinced, but I do not have any personal experience of this, aside from the time we asked questions of our previous teacher (and he flipped his lid, went into a little "fit" and refused to answer the questions that we had, because they came from APOSTATES! FORNICATORS! LIARS!)

She knows about this episode, since I have told her. I said, "That was not our experience, and we were not even baptized. If you are a baptized JW, I get the impression that you have to agree 100%, without question. My mom does not feel like she can ask questions, and she seems to feel ashamed that she has questions at all. After you are baptized, you are expected to follow the company line, even when it doesn't make sense, or it goes beyond the teachings of Jesus Christ."

She disagreed. She kept saying that it was ok to ask questions, and that my mom should ask her questions. I said, "Won't she get into trouble, if she asks the wrong questions?" She gave me a surprised look, "No! Of course not! Why would she get in trouble for asking questions?" I said something to the effect that, people are not allowed to disagree with the governing body, or they could be punished... "or even disfellowshipped?"

She then asked me, "How do you get disfellowshipped?" I said I didn't know for sure, but I asked her if there was an honorable way to leave the organization, without being cut off from family and friends who are still JW's. She said, "Yes, you just stop going."

I said, "And then they disfellowship you, or ... ??"

She said, "The majority of the time, the people who leave, at least in my observation, these are the people who don't want to WORK. They either don't want to participate in the preaching work, or they don't like the idea of submitting to authority. The people who get disfellowshipped, do it to themselves. They make the choice to be disfellowshipped."

She went on to say, "Disfellowshipping is a loving arrangement. When someone stops wanting to please God, and they start doing things that separate them from God, they need a wake-up call. When they get disfellowshipped, and sometimes they actually think that is what they want, they realize, 'Oh, wait a minute... this isn't what I had in mind!' Often, this will encourage them to come back. It is done out of LOVE." (sickest kind of love I've ever seen)

I said, "So it is out of love, that parents stop talking to their children, and vice versa? What if a child gets baptized very young, and then grows up and decides that the JW life is not for them. The child might even go to a Christian church, or just decide to follow the bible, instead of the religious leaders of the JW's. Will they be disfellowshipped?"

She again said, "How do you get disfellowshipped?" I did not claim to know any details... I'm not revealing exactly how much apostate information I've been reading.

I rephrased, "So, if you leave, and your mother is still a JW, is she allowed to speak to you?"

"That is up to your mother's conscience."

I asked her, "Has anyone in your family ever been disfellowshipped?" She said no. She said, "My parents left for a little while, but they weren't disfellowshipped."

I asked her if she was born-in to the JW's. She said the JW's came to their door when she was about 5 years old. Her baby brother had died as an infant, and her grief-stricken mother was getting very poor advice and "comfort" from her Baptist pastor and Christian friends. "The JW's came to the door, and my mother invited them in. She said, 'I have some questions for you.' "

She told me she has 2 brothers who never became JW's. They all communicate, and their family ties are intact. Her parents ended up getting divorced, after the death of her brother, and specific events that followed, and that were never forgiven. It was a sad story, but she claims to have a happy extended family.

------------------ We finally wrapped up, and she closed in prayer (basically a repeat of the opening prayer). She actually said, "Would you like to close in prayer?" and I said ok... and for a split second, I thought she was asking ME to pray! But I think she realized the misconception, and started praying before I could take a breath or even close my Bible.

We scheduled our next appointment for 3 weeks from now. My family is going on a vacation, and then hers is going to the International Convention in Detroit.

I asked her if she was looking forward to it. She said, "Oh yes, we always do. My husband and I always stay an extra day, so we can enjoy the hotel and relax together..." and I wrinkled my nose, and said, "... enjoy DETROIT!" with a chuckle. She said, "Yeah, well we aren't going there to see Detroit, obviously." I said, "Yeah, definitely NOT a good year for Detroit."

She said, "We don't go there to see the city. We of course go for the convention." She showed me her name badge. (conspicuously did NOT give me an invitation) She said, "You can download the entire program on jw.org. I like to do that, and then go through it and try to figure out at what points they are going to give us a new book, or some new material. Then I go through and put little stars next to the talks that I think are going to be the best ones. OF COURSE, they are ALL good... but different people relate to different topics, you know..."

I didn't admit that I'd already seen the entire program, and have even read through the outline and descriptions of what is really going to be said during those wonderful talks. I found it interesting that she didn't even mention that we could come. I also did not mention that we'd been to one of those before. I probably shoud have... I could have told her how CULTISH it all seems, to someone who is not indoctrinated. BORING!

So, we will be seeing each other after we both leave reality and come back.

I am going with my husband and kids, on a dream vacation escape to one of the precious jewels of Michigan: Mackinac Island. No cars, no rush, the sounds of horses and waves... being SERVED and treated like royalty, while also exploring history and nature with my curious and adventurous children. I can't WAIT! (already dreading my return home... haha)

She is going to the slums of Michigan, the deepest bowels of poverty and crime in our state. She gets to fight throngs of people, heavy traffic, dodge bums, march in step and listen to long, chastising speeches, reminding her that she will never be good enough. At least she will get that extra night in the hotel...

I told her we could compare stories when we get back. I wonder if she will share anything that she "learned."

16

Crap trying to reason with a Mormon He is asking about the Sabath

by Found Sheep in

nice guy i worked with him for about a year.

he is mormon but every time we were in a place to talk he brought up religion, cult thinking.... he needs to come clean i think.... ripe for the vine of non cult thinking but not an ex-jw so i don't have the upper hand?

is there a coc for mormons?

Faithful Witness

Found Sheep: You might be very interested in this site, run by Keith Walker.

www.evidenceministries.org

The Walkers founded Evidence Ministries in 1995 as a missionary outreach to the San Antonio, TX Area. Its threefold purpose is to REACH Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons for Christ, to TEACH Christians the differences between these two cults and Biblical Christianity, and to WARN the community about the dangers of these groups. Evidence Ministries is active in REACHING these cults through personal witnessing and mission trips.

Read his website, and you will learn ways to effectively use your knowledge of JW's, in order to reach your Mormon friend.

31

My Elderette is attempting to change the subject again

by Faithful Witness in

we were in the middle of discussing their use of god's personal name, and miss k was not able to find one place in the bible, where jesus actually said the name out loud (that wasn't a quote from the ot).

we had started out by talking about jesus being "the way, the truth and the life.

" then she stated that one of the purposes of jesus' coming to earth, was "to make god's name known.

Faithful Witness

I am taking all of your warnings very seriously. I know that this is war, and that Miss K does NOT come in peace. I will not be overconfident in dealing with Miss K and her JW wiles.

She has left out an important step in the process, well actually TWO steps, and I don't think she knows that I have noticed:

She never prays with me, and has not yet talked about prayer at all.
She is not love-bombing... she is not even like-bombing. She has not bothered to learn the names of my children yet, even though they greet her every time she visits. I find this slightly out of the ordinary, since I know the names of her grandchildren, and ask about them each time. All of our small talk is about her and her family. (This is fine with me! I would prefer to keep it academic. I have no intention of investing my emotions in a conditional friendship. She is more of a psychology experiment).
(She is also a very poor listener, and only listens in order to pick up cues to use to change subjects or turn questions back at me, in an attempt to make me look ignorant or unprepared).

To be honest, there is a small voice that keeps telling me that she might actually be reading these posts! HAHA... I have no evidence of course, but just a nervous feeling every time I relay my experiences with her. She would recognize the dog, as both she and Miss W cower in fear at our barking German Shepherd.

I'm learning a lot about JW behavior and thought from talking with her. She has come right out and admitted that "you are different," and 'YOU know what we believe," and "Your situation is different than most... you have family in the organization... you are smart..." etc. I guess that might be her way of giving me attention and love, but it never sounds like sincere praise or recognition... more like fear or suspicion. During each of our last 2 sessions, I found a nerve and did manage to ruffle her feathers quite a bit.

I've learned what behavior and statements she will say, to stop herself from thinking, and try to get me to stop along with her. She is a very interesting character, and I have to admit that I love drama and human emotions. As I continue talking with her, I learn so much about how her thought process works.

Miss K has no intention of actually listening to anything I have to say, and she really does not care about my sincere questions. I'm not kidding myself here... I realize I do NOT have the power to reach her through that thick wall the Watchtower has built in her mind. She does not have ears to hear, or eyes to see the truth about her "Truth."

The questions and topics we discuss, can hopefully be relayed to my parents. My father will be delighted, when I go to him and start asking him "Bible" quesions, and telling him what Miss K said. Since he is a man, he is above her, right?? (hahaha)... I know he relies heavily on that little brown "Reasoning" book for his answers. Miss K goes beyond that, so I can help him possibly see that thought beyond the printed material is going to be essential, if he wants to be a "good Jehovah's Witness."

My dad has made the statement 3 times (in one visit to my house, when he was talking about the new JW app), "I don't know... they are smarter than me!" Now that I am "back" as a bible student, I will have more leeway again in talking to him about these important issues. It will be interesting to see how this approach works with him.

I am looking forward (with some trepidation) to my meeting with Miss K today, as it always makes for interesting conversation with my husband. My children are not sitting at the table with us (BORRRRING!), but they do see and are fully aware of what is happening. There is no way they will ever fall for the WT bull... We will laugh and talk about the JW statements together. My 7 year old daughter and 6 year old son, are both highly intelligent and have developed some good critical thinking skills.

I look forward to telling Miss K that I will be playing the part of the "kindergartener" during this bible study. I have so many questions, beyond what that little book tells me I'm supposed to ask...

HAVE you ever noticed the way children ask questions? Many start asking as soon as they learn to speak. With wide, eager eyes, they look up at you and ask such things as: Why is the sky blue? What are the stars made of? Who taught the birds to sing? You may try hard to answer, but it is not always easy. Even your best answer may lead to yet another question: Why?

2 Children are not the only ones who ask questions. As we grow up, we keep asking. We do this in order to find our way, to learn of dangers that we need to avoid, or to satisfy our curiosity. But many people seem to stop asking questions, especially the most important ones. At least, they stop searching for the answers.

3. Why do many stop trying to find answers to the questions that matter most?

3 Think about the question on the cover of this book, the questions raised in the preface, or those at the beginning of this chapter. These are some of the most important questions you can ask. Yet, many people have given up trying to find the answers. Why? Does the Bible have the answers? Some feel that its answers are too hard to understand. Others worry that asking questions could lead to shame or embarrassment. And some decide that such questions are best left to religious leaders and teachers. What about you?

4, 5. What are some of the most important questions we can ask in life, and why should we seek the answers?

4 Very likely you are interested in getting answers to life’s big questions. No doubt you sometimes wonder: ‘What is the purpose of life? Is this life all there is? What is God really like?’ It is good to ask such questions, and it is important that you do not give up until you find satisfying, reliable answers. The famous teacher Jesus Christ said: “Keep on asking, and it will be given you; keep on seeking, and you will find; keep on knocking, and it will be opened to you.”—Matthew 7:7.

5 If you “keep on seeking” for answers to the important questions, you will find that the search can be very rewarding. (Proverbs 2:1-5) Despite what other people may have told you, there are answers, and you can find them—in the Bible. The answers are not too hard to understand. Better yet, they bring hope and joy. And they can help you to live a satisfying life right now. To begin, let us consider a question that has troubled many people.

The question that is really plaguing me most today...

WHY DO JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES STOP ASKING QUESTIONS? Why did you stop asking questions?

Paragraph 5 says you can find the answers in the Bible. What do we need this book for?

Who wrote this book? How do we know it is true?

Was it written by religious leaders? Who do we get our answers from? What do they mean in paragraph 3? Are we supposed to rely on religious leaders, or the Bible?

31

My Elderette is attempting to change the subject again

by Faithful Witness in

we were in the middle of discussing their use of god's personal name, and miss k was not able to find one place in the bible, where jesus actually said the name out loud (that wasn't a quote from the ot).

we had started out by talking about jesus being "the way, the truth and the life.

" then she stated that one of the purposes of jesus' coming to earth, was "to make god's name known.

Faithful Witness

I appreciate all your comments and concerns. I am learning a lot from my meetings with Miss K and Miss W.

I am going to use the paragraphs on pages 8 & 9, to show Miss K my reasononing for asking so many questions. If she can't follow through on answering any questions, then this book study will not last long. http://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/bible-teach/what-is-the-truth-about-god/

HAVE you ever noticed the way children ask questions? Many start asking as soon as they learn to speak. With wide, eager eyes, they look up at you and ask such things as:

#1 Wouldn't it be better to teach people the proper name for God, than to continue to use the erroneous pronunciation "Jehovah" even though it is more familiar?

What good is it to pass on a false name, simply because it has come down through years of tradition?

Shouldn't we be more interested in accuracy, than in tradition? (Matthew 7:13 " Thus you make the word of God invalid by your tradition that you have handed down. + And you do many things like this.”)

#2 If it is so important to continually use God's name in Hebrew, then why did Jesus only address Him as "Father?"

And why did He teach His disciples to address Him as "Father?"

I have more questions than most people do... and I gladly accept their label of me as a kindergartener. My son is a kindergartener, and his questions are quite astounding at times! I won't stop asking questions.